Filipino/Hispanic and Filipino/Asian relations

[Filiprish]

Some Asians don't like it how Filipinos often also identify with Hispanics in addition to Asians. It's like they view Filipinos as Hapas who they expect to choose between one of their ethnicities. Why is this so?

[yuuteya]

well i disagree with those asians. in fact, i thinks its really cool how filipinos are more relaxed about identity (generaly speaking) than other asian groups and anglo-whites. like filipinos seem to have a far more flexible and fluid way of identity that is already part of the traditional culture, which is totally cool. it reminds me of latin american attitudes and the idea of the great mixed people 'la raza cosmica' as was suggested by Jose Vasconcelos in mexico. but thats not to say that theres no discrimination in filipino/latino cultures, there is. thats not to say there was no destruction against indigenous cultures which was not being whitewashed, it was, as the social activist Rigoberta Menchu has attested. then you have 'shade-ism' dont you? the lighter skins vs darker skins, 'mestizos' are seen as mas guapo que los 'indios', etc. but when you compare it to the 'yellow asian cultures' and to the 'white anglo cultures', the filipino/latino cultures are way more relaxed and have less obsessed attitude. thats cool dude!

[yuuteya]

here is a interesting article about filipino/latino political solidarity

Excerpts of my exchanges on burning issues with people from the Spanish-speaking world

By ADELBERT S. BATICA (February 20, 2005)

NOTE: I have been a member of the Circulo Hispano-Filipino, a group of Spanish-speaking Filipinos and Spanish speakers from around the globe who care about social, cultural, political, and economic developments in the Philippines, including the Philippines’ seemingly self-imposed isolation from Hispanic culture and language and the need to establish strong linkages with former Spanish colonies with whom we share many things in common. In this day and age when the Philippines faces seemingly insurmountable challenges, it is important that Filipinos learn to “think out of the box”, learn to look East and South for stronger economic, political, and cultural ties instead of simply “looking West”. If by looking West it means looking to Europe and especially America, it’s also time to look at “America” through a different set of lenses. For more than a century, we have always understood “America” to mean the United States, or simply, the “States”. This is an erroneous assertion, because Canada is also makes up the Americas; so do Mexico, Central and South America, and the Caribbean.

Let us remember that, regardless of our righteous anger at the many excesses of Spanish colonial rule, Spanish language and culture nevertheless became part of our lives as a nation and as a people. In fact, our Declaration of Independence in 1898 was in Spanish, so was the Malolos Constitution that laid the foundations for the First Philippine Republic. It’s impossible to imagine an English-speaking Rizal, his works in Spanish, especially Mi Ultimo Adiós will always be part of our heritage. Many of our great nationalists, including Claro M. Recto, Lorenzo Tañada, and Jose W. Diokno could articulate the Filipino’s nationalist aspirations in Tagalog, English, and Spanish.

It would be a mistake to dismiss or hate Spanish simply because it is a “colonial” language, the language of the oppressor – because English is also a colonial tongue. To make generalizations and exorcise Spanish as “the language of the oppressor” is to deny the fact that the Founders of our Republic also spoke the language. True, Spanish was the language of Padre Dámaso, but it was also the language of Simon Bolívar, Che Guevara, Camilo Tórres, Augusto César Sandino, and Jacobo Arbénz Guzmán. Spanish is also the language of Fidel Castro and Húgo Chávez – men who are hardly representative of the elite.

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:22:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject:Re: [hispanofilipino] ¡VIVA VENEZUELA!: Chávez no es el
Mesías esperado (Long Live Venezuela! Chavez is not the long-awaited Messiah

Grácias, mi amigo Bernardino. Mi doble apellido es culpa de la máquina, o sea del Yahoo. Mi nombre completo es Adelbert Saborrido Batica, aunque si escribo yo como hispano, deberia ser Adelbert Batica Saborrido. Aí, el daño que nos hízo la colonización gringa. Bueno, el idioma filipino que uso en el mensaje es tagalo, uno que aprendí por la práctica.

Continúo aprender mas castellano, lo cual continúo aprender desde mas de 40 años, aunque no estoy contento, como el proceso de aprender es un proceso perpétuo. Non scholae, sed vitae discimus! Como dijéron los Romanos. Y yo también - No estudiamos por la escuela, sino por la vida.

Saludos cordiales.

Adelbert S. Batica

English: Thank you, my friend Bernardino. My double family name is the machine’s fault, or better yet, Yahoo’s. My full name is Adelbert Saborrido Batica, although if I were to write like a Hispanic, it should be Adelbert Batica Saborrido. Oh, the damage that Yankee colonization did to us. Well, the Philippine language I use in the message is Tagalog, one that I learned through practice.

I continue to learn Castilian, which I’ve been doing for more than 40 years, although I’m not satisfied because the learning process is a lifetime process. Non scholae, sed vitae discimus! The Romans used to say. And I too (say so) - We don’t study for school, but for life.

Cordial greetings.

Adelbert S. Batica

++++++++++

BERNARDINO <bernarsua@yahoo.es> wrote:

Amigo Batica Batica, grácias por tu mensaje bien elaborado tanto en idioma castellano como en el otro que creo debe ser uno de los idiomas Filipinos. Ojalá todos los mensajes llegaran así, otro gallo cantaría para la ayuda a nuestra campaña pro rehispanizar y revitalizar la cultura hispana en FILIPINAS y además poner el conocimiento de ese pueblo tan querido los problemas de los demás países hispanos hermanos, que son muy comúnes a los suyos. Ya que Filipinas sufre un bloquéo tan importante como el que destacas en tu mensaje sobre Cuba. Hemos de ayudar a hacerles ver a los filipinos y a todos los demás pueblos subyugados por la globalización, tanto en la zona hispánica como en otras que también ocurre.

Saludos desde Badajoz (ESPAÑA).

Bernardino

English: My friend Batica Batica, thank you for your well-articulated message both in the Castilian language as in the other, which has to be one of the Philippine languages. Would that all messages would reach (me) in a similar manner (bilingual), another rooster who might be singing for help in this (our) campaign to re-hispanicize and revitalize Hispanic culture in the Philippines and further make this beloved country aware of the problems of other brother Hispanic countries who share similar problems with you. The fact is, the Philippines is also suffering from a blockade, like the one you discussed in your message about Cuba. We have to help Filipinos as well as other peoples subjugated by globalization see (the reality), be it in Hispanic areas or in others where it’s also happening.

++++++++++

Adelbert Batica <basaynon49@yahoo.com> wrote:

Mabuhay kayo, Don Guillermo!Diyan ako hanga sa inyo, kung banat anti-imperialista na ang pag-uusapan.Napakatumpak at karapat-dapat lamang na tayo'y maki-isa at maki-balikat sa ating mga kapatid sa LatinoAmerica at iba't ibang panig ng mundong wikang kastila.Hindi kataka-taka na tayong lahat ay dapat maligalig sa mga nangyayari sa Filipinas at sa LatinoAmerica, dahil para yatang tayong mga Filipino at mga LatinoAmericano ay niluluto sa isang palayok na ginagatungan nga IMF, World Bank, WTO, at ng mismong gobierno ng Estados Unidos.Hindi natin maipagkakaila na ang mga naturang bansa, katulad ng Filipinas nating mahal, ay lubog na sa utang at patuloy na sumusunod sa mga nireresetang "gamot" ng IMF - upang tuluyang mangutang at ang kani-kanilang mga economia ay patuloy na nakatali sa mga dicta at capricho ng World Bank-IMF con WTO pa gani.Kawawang Filipinas at kawawang LatinoAmerica.Ngunit mas lalong kawawa ang Filipinas, dahil hindi lamang walang pera, walang pagkain, walang tubig, walang ilaw ang bansa, kundi ang mga lideres ay napaka-walang hiya.

Que viva Vd. Don Guillermo! Cuando se hábla de ponencias anti-imperialistas, ahí le admiro. Es justo y correcto que nosotros filipinos nos unémos por nuestros hermanos en LatinoAmerica y en otras partes del mundo hispano-hablante. No es sorprendiente que nos molestan mucho lo que están pasando en las Filipinas y en LatinoAmerica, como nos están cocinando a nosotros en la misma jolla El IMF, Banco Mundial, WTO, y las pólizas del gobierno de los EE.UU. No podemos negar el hecho que nuestros países, nuestra queridaFilipinas que esta ahogando en deudas y continúan tomar la medicación recetada por el IMF, para que continuarían conseguir préstamos al mismo tiempo que sus propias economías estén atadas por las dictas y caprichos del Banco Mundial-IMF, y también del WTO. Pobre Filipinas y pobre LatinoAmerica. Pero Filipinas se encuentra en una condición mas miserable, no sólo que no hay dinero, ni comida, ni agua, ni luz, sino también tiene líderes sin vergüenza.

Iba naman ang kalagayan ng Cuba, patuloy na naninindigan bagama't unti-unting sinasakal ng bloqueo economico na sinimulan ng Estados Unidos noong pang 1960.Kung matatandaan pa natin, noong taong iyon - sa halip na ang Cuba ay bumili ng crudo galing sa Estados Unidos, bumili ng crudo galing sa Venezuela.Kaya lang, ang nagmamay-ari noon ng mga refinería ay mga companiyang Kano at Ingles, at tumanggi sila sa crudong Venezolano.Ang pobreng Fidel ay napilitang sakupin at angkinin ang mga refineriang dayuhan, at sakupin din ang mga lupang pag-aari ng mga companiyang dayuhan.Doon na gumanti ang gigante sa hilaga, sa pamamagitan ng bloqueo economico. Ako po'y humihingi ng paumanhin sa mga kasapi sa circulong ito, kung halimbawa'y hindi ko maiwasan ang pagbanat laban sa mga patakaran ng Estados Unidos, lalo na iyong nauukol sa Filipinas.Mahirap para sa isang Filipino tulad ko, na pag-usapan ang hispanismo sa Filipinas at ang pakikipag-ugnay sa mga bansang hispano-hablante, lalo na ang LatinoAmerica, at hindi isasangkot ang Estados Unidos, dahil naman - gustuhin ko man o hindi, andoon din at buhay na buhay ang mga patakarang hindi makatarungan ng EE.UU.

La situación de Cuba es algo diferente, continúa ponerse de pie a pesar de estar sofocado, poco a poco, por un bloqueo económico forzado por los EE.UU. desde el año 1960. Si todavía nos recordamos, Cuba, en vez de comprar el crudo de los EE.UU., lo compró de Venezuela. El problema era que, las refinerías en Cuba pertenecieron a las compañías gringas y ingleses, y por consiguiente rehusaron procesar el petróleo venezolano. El pobre Fidel decidió entonces nacionalizar y confiscar las refinerías extranjeras. Y luego el gigante del norte se desquitó, por un bloqueo económico.

Yo pido la disculpa de mis contertulios en este círculo, si acaso no pueda yo evitar de mis protestas contra las pólizas de los EE.UU., especialmente los que se relacionan con las Filipinas. Es algo difícil para un filipino como yo, discutir sobre el hispanismo en las filipinas y tratar de hacer intercambios con el mundo hispano-hablante, específicamente con LatinoAmerica, sin incluir a los EE.UU., porque allí están las pólizas injustas de los EE.UU., vi vito y coleando, que quiera yo o no.

Ngunit sa kabila ng bloqueo laban sa Cuba, oo nga't naghihirap ang mamamayang cubano, nguni't ang nakapagtataka ay buong-buo ang kanilang isip, at ang paghihirap doon ay hindi naman tulad ng paghihirap ng maraming mamamayang Filipino, na halos mamatay na sa gutom.Oo nga't democracia "kuno" ang gobierno natin sa Filipinas, nguni't ang nakakahiya ay - mas marami ang nagugutom, mas marami ang maysakit, mas laganap ang kurakot, mas mabaho at matindi ang amoy ng ihi at basura sa Maynila (habang malinis ang Habana at iba't iba pang panig ng Cuba walang amoy ng ihi o ng basura). At kung larangan naman ng educacion ang pag-uusapan natin, libre ang pag-aaral sa Cuba (hanggang universitaria), masigasig ang pagtuturo ng cultura, ciencia, at tecnología, y los lenguajes. Kung pangkalahatang kalusugan naman ang pag-uusapan - lahat ng mamamayang cubano ay nakikinabang dito.Oo, simple lang ang kanilang mga servicio, kaya lang - malayo talaga ang sistema ng salud publica sa Filipinas. Ano'ng nangyayari?

A pesar del bloqueo económico contra Cuba, a pesar del sufrimiento del pueblo cubano, lo que me sorprende mucho es que la gente tiene el ánimo y la determinación, y el sufrimiento del pueblo cubano no llega al nivel del sufrimiento de la mayoría de los filipinos, quienes ahora se parecen que están muriendo de hambre. Sí, que las Filipinas tiene un sistema de gobierno democrático o algo así, pero lo que me da vergüenza es el hecho que hay mucho más que sufren del hambre, hay mucho más enfermos, la corrupción es mas prevaleciente, hay mucho mas olor de la orina y la basura en Manila (mientras que en las calles de la Habana y otras partes de Cuba no habían el olor de la orina ni la basura). Tanto a la educación, esto es libre desde la primaria hasta la universitaria, se enseña con todo ánimo la cultura, la ciencia, tecnología, y los lenguajes. Tanto a la salud universal, todos los ciudadanos cubanos son beneficiarios y aprovechan de esto. Sí, ellos aprovechan de servicios simples, pero la verdad es que la salud publica de Filipinas, un país democrática, es demasiado lejos de lo de Cuba - un país comunista. ¿Qué pasa?

Hindi naman sa ipinagtatanggol ko ang sistemang comunista o socialista, hindi sa ako'y tagahanga ng sistemang cubano (dahil marami ring mga bagay doon na hindi ko nagugustuhan).Ang sa akin ay nagtataka lamang - kung bakit itong democracia natin sa Filipinas ay hindi lamang mahina, kundi mas nagpapahirap sa sangkapilipinuhan, sa halip na sila ay iangat sa kahirapan.At ang pinakamasakit pa dito - itong democracia natin ay copia pa nga democracia ng Estados Unidos, mas malapit pa tayo sa EE.UU., nguni't itong ating pagiging malapit sa mga "kabutihan" at "gracia" ni Tio Sam, ay hindi naman napakikinabangan ng nakararaming Filipino.Kaya, kung talagang totoong nakakabuti sa karamihan ang sistemang democrática, bakit mas matindi pa ngayon ang paghihirap ng mamamayang Filipino?

No quiero decir que defiendo el sistema comunista o socialista, y no significa que yo admiro el sistema cubano (porque hay muchas cosas en Cuba que no estoy de acuerdo). Lo del mío es un estado de estar sorprendido - por qué la democracia de Filipinas no sólo es incapaz, sino también hace sufrir a los filipinos, en vez de rescatarles de la pobreza. Y lo que me da tanta pena es que nuestra democracia es una copia de lo de los EE.UU., tenemos relaciones mas cercas con los EE.UU., pero el estar cerca a los "bienes" y a la "gracia" del Tio Sam no da provecho a la mayoría de los filipinos. Entonces, si es verdad que el sistema democrático es para el bienestar de la mayoría, ¿por qué el pueblo filipino ha sufrido mas en este momento bajo este sistema democrático?

Ang aking mga kuro-kuro ukol sa Cuba ay nahagilap ko sa pamamagitan ng isang maikling pagdalaw sa Lupa ni Fidel, maikli dahil dalawang linggo lamang ako doon, ngunit sa loob ng dalawang linggong iyon, sa pamamagitan sa pakikipag-ugnay sa mga ordinariong cubano (at iilang maituturing nating "middleclass"), mas naliwanagan ako sa tunay na kalagayan sa Cuba.At kahit naman saan ako nagpunta (Habana, Pinar del Río, Vinales, Trinidad, Santa Clara), ang mga salitang nangingibabaw ay: el bloqueo economico.Totoong ang kalagayan ng Cuba ay dapat mabigyan ng lunas, ngunit ang suliraning iton ay dapat pag-usap-usapan ng cubano na mismo - ya que sila'y nasa Miami o sa Cuba. Ito'y suliraning cubano, tulad ng kalagayan ngayon sa Venezuela ay isang talakayin ng mga venezolano.Kahit ano pa man ang mangyari, tayo namang mga kapatid at mga kaibigang Filipino ay dapat maki-isa at makibalikat sa kanila, at igalang ang kanilang pagsasarili.Sa Cuba naman, ang ipagdarasal ko lamang, ay hindi sana bumalik ang panahon ng demoniong si Batista, ang pagbubugaw, hindi lamang ng kababaihan, kundi ng dangal at kaluluwa ng Cuba.

Yo recogé mis opiniónes personáles sobre Cuba déntro de una visita corta a la tierra de Fidel, digo corta como llevé solo dos semanas en el país, sin embargo, dentro las dos semanas, logré una imagen mas clara del país y de la condición actual, por mis intercambios con gente cubana ordinaria (y con algunos de la media clase). Y dondequiera que me fui (a la Habana, Pinar del Río, Viñales, Trinidad, Santa Clara) la frase que subía era el bloqueo económico. Verdad que la situación de Cuba necesita una solución, pero este asunto debe discutirse por los cubanos mismos, y no importa si ellos son los cubanos de Miami o los que viven en Cuba. Es un asunto cubano, tal como lo de Venezuela es un asunto venezolano. Y sea lo que sea, nosotros - sus hermanos y amigos filipinos debemos unirnos y cerrar filas por ellos, al mismo tiempo que respetamos su propia soberanía.Tanto a Cuba, lo que ruego yo es que no regrese nunca el tiempo del demonio Batista, la prostitución no sólo de las mujeres, sino también lo del honor y del alma de Cuba.

Mabuhay ang Venezuela, mabuhay ang Cuba, mabuhay ang LatinoAmerica!

Mabuhay ang pagkakaisa!

¡Que viva Venezuela, viva Cuba, viva LatinoAmerica! ¡Que viva la Solidaridad!

Isang mainit na pagbati.

Un cálido saludo.

Adelbert S. Batica

++++++++++

Guillermo Gómez-Rivera <grgomez@tri-isys.com> wrote:

Queridos hermanos en la Hispanidad:

Creo, sin equivocarme, que todos debemos cerrar filas por pueblos hermanos de habla castellana como Venezuela independiente de sus intestinas cuestiones políticas.

En cuanto al caso de Cuba, no hace falta ser comunista para ver que ese bloqueo económico que se le hace, no es justo.

Será muy interesante ver qué es lo que va a pasar en Cuba en el momento que el Presidente Fidel Castro se retire del poder y que toda la infraestructura de resistencia constante y apasionada contra el WASP usense se desmorone. ¿Se volverá Cuba tan prostituida, tan fastidiada, tan empobrecida, tan corrompida , tan falto de atención médica para todos, tan hambrienta a pesar de "la democracia", y tan pisoteada por prostituida como lo está ahora Filipinas?

NO olvidemos que, como en el caso de Filipinas (hoy la undécima más corrompida en el mundo según cierto monitor internacional), el WASP usense engañó e insultó la inteligencia como la dignidad de todos los cubanos con la desvergonzada enmienda Platt en su propia ley orgánica desde 1898 amen de la conversión de Cuba como una Casa de juegos y todo un burdel, como lo es ahora Filipinas que ha perdido casi todas las señales de su cultura y de su decencia en el empobrecimiento en el que se le ha metido mediante los endeudamientos (ahora debe tres trillones de $$$ a los bancos usenses) que se perpetran con la forzada colaboración de sus Presidentes y demás políticos y supuestos "tecnócratas"... Y nos enseñan el Noli me tangere de Rizal a los niños filipinos para decirles que al pagar el tributo al Rey de España se hicieron esclavos...

EN FIN CERREMOS FILAS por el bien de Venezuela y de todos los venezolanos. Cerremos filas por TODOS nuestros países, los países de lengua y cultura hispanas...Hagamoslo igualmente por TODOS los cubanos irrespectivo de la desunión que ahora padecen, deseando que esa misma desunión entre los de Miami y los de la Isla desaparezca a la postre para que resurja una CUBA aun más grande y aun más fuerte.

Translation:

Dear brothers and sisters in Hispanidad:

I believe, without a doubt, that all of us have to close ranks behind brother countries of the Spanish-speaking world like Venezuela, regardless of their internal political issues.

As far as Cuba, it doesn’t take a communist to see that the economic embargo against it is unjust.

It will be very interesting to see what is going to happen in Cuba once President Fidel Castro retires and the infrastructure for strong and passionate resistance against the White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) U.S. crumbles. Will Cuba go back to being so prostituted, abused, impoverished, corrupted, so deprived of medical care for all, so starved in spite of the “democracy” just like (the democracy) that has burdened and is prostituted in the Philippines?

Let us not forget that like the Philippines’ case (now the eleventh most corrupt in the world according to some international monitors), the U.S. WASP deceived and insulted the intelligence as well as the dignity of all Cubans with the insertion of the shameless Platt Amendment into its Constitution in 1898, same with the conversion of Cuba into a casino and a brothel, just like what is happening in the Philippines, which has now lost almost all semblance of culture and decency to its never-ending impoverishment as a result of indebtedness (and now owes U.S. banks three trillion dollars), which is perpetrated by the stronger collaboration between their presidents, politicians and alleged “technocrats”… who teach us Rizal’s Noli Me Tangere so they can tell Filipino children that paying tribute to the King of Spain was what made them slaves…

Finally, let us close ranks for the good of Venezuela and of all Venezuelans. Let us close ranks behind ALL our countries, countries of the Spanish language and culture… Let us do the same for Cuba, regardless of the apparent disunity among those in Miami and those on the island, hoping only that such disunity may disappear and that a greater and stronger Cuba may emerge.

http://www.samarnews.com/Insight/insight11.htm

[Craig]

I think Filipinos identifying as Hispanic is oftentimes a sign of self-hatred for being "Asian"; Also, it is often a sign of white worship. Why the hell go out of your way to tell me about your great-great-grandfather who was Spanish and ignore the rest of your ancestry, or even make up a distant relative with European ancestry. First of all, if you don't want to be Asian, good for you, I'm sure many Asians wouldn't want you anyway.

Maybe in the USA, many Asians hate being associated with such sycophantic self-haters ? Unfortunately, beyond our control, we as non-white Europeans are judged by the actions of other "Asians" (American's definition, not ours). So, at the point in time when people are judged as a human being, and not as a Asian, Black, Indian, Middle Eastern, Hispanic, etc., then many of these people will stop caring. Until then, ...

[Filiprish]

Craig, you're forgetting the fact that Filipino culture has many similarities with Hispanic/Latin culture, as well as Asian. Filiponos are kindred with both.

Is it not allowed for people to be kindred with more than one ethnicities other than their own?

Filipinos are a special case. It's bad enough that Filipinos have endured a long history of colonization.

Why can't Filipinos reap the benefits of their heritage, what little it may provide?

Also, why are people so quick to think that Filipinos are trying to disassociate themselves with Asians by identifying with Hispanic/Latin?

I think it comes down to the fact that Filipinos already don't look Asian aka East Asian, in other words they have dark skin and no "chinky" eyes. When people accused Filipinos of being self-haters, I just think self-hating Asians are projecting their own self-hate onto Filipinos.

Thanks, yuuteya. I'm proud of my heritage, as most Filipinos. Filipinos are Asian but not - East but not - but when it comes down to it Filipinos are just Filipino.

You're right, Filipinos do have their skin color preferences. Dark is symbolic of poor and light is with affluent, as in most ethnicities, especially in Asia. Most light Filipinos get their skin from their Chinese heritage. I don't know if this has anything to do with strained Filipino/Asian relations in the States, but the Chinese in the Philippines are like Jews in the West. They make up very small percentages of the population in which the countries they live yet control an overwhelming amount of the economy. Coming back to what you were talking about, I never thought about the Philippines being a microcosm of Latin America. The country does have a similar spectrum of skin color like the continent south of the US. I'd say the Philippines is skewed toward dark but I see what you're saying. That's a pretty cool thought. I'll have to ponder it more and post what I come up with.

Btw, I agree that Filipinos, like Latinos, are less color conscious than most other ethnicities.

[yuuteya]

Originally Posted by Filiprish

Craig, you're forgetting the fact that Filipino culture has many similarities with Hispanic/Latin culture, as well as Asian. Filiponos are kindred with both.

Is it not allowed for people to be kindred with more than one ethnicities other than their own?

Filipinos are a special case. It's bad enough that Filipinos have endured a long history of colonization.

Why can't Filipinos reap the benefits of their heritage, what little it may provide?

Also, why are people so quick to think that Filipinos are trying to disassociate themselves with Asians by identifying with Hispanic/Latin?

I think it comes down to the fact that Filipinos already don't look Asian aka East Asian, in other words they have dark skin and no "chinky" eyes. When people accused Filipinos of being self-haters, I just think self-hating Asians are projecting their own self-hate onto Filipinos.

Thanks, yuuteya. I'm proud of my heritage, as most Filipinos. Filipinos are Asian but not - East but not - but when it comes down to it Filipinos are just Filipino.

You're right, Filipinos do have their skin color preferences. Dark is symbolic of poor and light is with affluent, as in most ethnicities, especially in Asia. Most light Filipinos get their skin from their Chinese heritage. I don't know if this has anything to do with strained Filipino/Asian relations in the States, but the Chinese in the Philippines are like Jews in the West. They make up very small percentages of the population in which the countries they live yet control an overwhelming amount of the economy. Coming back to what you were talking about, I never thought about the Philippines being a microcosm of Latin America. The country does have a similar spectrum of skin color like the continent south of the US. I'd say the Philippines is skewed toward dark but I see what you're saying. That's a pretty cool thought. I'll have to ponder it more and post what I come up with.

Btw, I agree that Filipinos, like Latinos, are less color conscious than most other ethnicities.

hoy Filiprish pare, alam ko na ang pilipino ay talaga cool culture to learn about. if we northern asians were as practical, relaxed and flexible about identity and culture as filipinos, we wouldnt be so stressed out, arrogant and volatile.

i think filipino history can also teach asians some very important lessons. philippines was the longest to be invaded and colonized continuously by spain, britain, usa, japan, usa, and very deeply that it affected and continues to affect the filipino identity and society. historian Renato Constantino and literary critic E. San Juan says philippines is still neo-colonized today by neo-liberal capitalist greed of the west, that continues the racist and sexist labor 'globalization' experience of the overseas workers, many are women. the wisdom and resistance from that long imperialist experience in the face of continuous cultural erasing and cultural re-making, the history of direct militaristic violence and subtle cultural violence, can teach others about coping with such events in the long term.

filipinos are damn cool dude!

btw, a favor, sorry its kind of silly, but hoy pare can you make me an honorary filipino? im already honorary chinese..

[SunWuKong]

Originally Posted by yuuteya

if we northern asians were as practical, relaxed and flexible about identity and culture as filipinos, we wouldnt be so stressed out, arrogant and volatile.

i don't know. reading about the Filipino nationalist movement, it doesn't seem like they're especially more relaxed about their identity than anybody else. i mean, Jose Rizal said he was indio puro not because he was relaxed about his identity, but because he didn't want to be identified as anything else, especially not mestizo, even though he came from a line of mestizos.

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally Posted by Craig

I think Filipinos identifying as Hispanic is oftentimes a sign of self-hatred for being "Asian"; Also, it is often a sign of white worship. Why the hell go out of your way to tell me about your great-great-grandfather who was Spanish and ignore the rest of your ancestry, or even make up a distant relative with European ancestry. First of all, if you don't want to be Asian, good for you, I'm sure many Asians wouldn't want you anyway.

Maybe in the USA, many Asians hate being associated with such sycophantic self-haters ? Unfortunately, beyond our control, we as non-white Europeans are judged by the actions of other "Asians" (American's definition, not ours). So, at the point in time when people are judged as a human being, and not as a Asian, Black, Indian, Middle Eastern, Hispanic, etc., then many of these people will stop caring. Until then, ...

I really never understood this though. Maybe once again it's the area where I live, but most of the Filipinos I've ever come across identify more with Asians and hang out more with Asian people (e.g. Cambodians, Chinese, Koreans, whatever) than with Hispanics or whites. This includes three of my best friends who are also Filipino.

[SunWuKong]

i've also never met any Filipino people that identify as Hispanic. and there's a young Filipino professionals group here that regularly organises happy hours with other Asian young professionals groups.

[Filiprish]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I really never understood this though. Maybe once again it's the area where I live, but most of the Filipinos I've ever come across identify more with Asians and hang out more with Asian people (e.g. Cambodians, Chinese, Koreans, whatever) than with Hispanics or whites. This includes three of my best friends who are also Filipino.

We are talking about Filipinos also identifying, not identifying more, with Hispanic. Also, this doesn't necassarily entail hanging out with Hispanics. Certain Asians think Filipinos are selling out and/or self-hating Asians b/c Filipinos often identify with Hispanic.

[DragonKnight]

Heh, I'm doing a paper that relates to this. We need to get more Filipinos on this particular subject.

For myself, I'm more biased towards Asian rather than Hispanic. Some would view embracing things such as the Spanish/English aspects of the Tagalog language and Roman Catholicism is giving in to the after effects of Western colonization.

[SunWuKong]

the more i read about Filipino history, the more it seems to me that you can't fit the Filipino identity neatly into any single categorisation but its own. it's still a relatively new identity in comparison to many ethnic identities in existence.

what interests me the most is how Chinese mestizos feel toward the Filipino Chinese community and Filipino Chinese people in the Philippines, who, more often than not, stay rooted in Chinese culture even after a few generations, intead of becoming "Filipinised".

(and i understand that some particularly rich Filipino Chinese are in constant danger of being kidnapped and held for ransom.)

[Napoleon Chynamite]

Originally Posted by Filiprish

We are talking about Filipinos also identifying, not identifying more, with Hispanic. Also, this doesn't necassarily entail hanging out with Hispanics. Certain Asians think Filipinos are selling out and/or self-hating Asians b/c Filipinos often identify with Hispanic.

Well once again, perhaps it's the state in which I live or the many Filipinos I've encountered in the past and present, but I've never met one that identifies with the Hispanic label at all, and virtually all of them I've seen identify themselves as either Asian or Pacific Islander or both. There are some who talk about having some Spanish lineage or blood, but that's not nearly the same thing. Anyways, i don't really wanna get into the discussion/debate about whether Filipinos are "Asian" or "Pacific Islander"~

[SunWuKong]

to be honest, i doubt many Filipinos in the Philippines identifies with being Hispanic.

[asvenus]

while i can understand alot of what you are saying filiprish i dont think its wise to rosetint the lens that we use to analyse filipino and latino cultures regarding their stance on race/colour...
particularly latino culture, which is basically structured through a pigmentocracy..its important to remember that while these groups may be more (obviously or blatantly) mixed than other groups, racial harmony or overlooking of ethnicity is not necessarily resultant...
i do love the way you think though and agree that we shouldnt have to ally ourselves with any particular one ethnicity or culture at all...i definitely do believe that you can appreciate and love two (maybe more!!) cultures simultaneously without compromising your identity adn integrity...it may be rare but not impossible...